Is there a history of the "femdom"

[Raine]

I have been researching the 'cultural' history of BDSM as of late, and our general BDSM roots are not well documnted in sexual history, or at least as I could find much prior to 1930's France and beyond fiction.

It had me wondering where the term "femdom" came from? Anyone? Even if not an historical context, what does this word mean to you as a Domme or a submissive and do you like it or not as a term?

[thelantern]

'femdom' is simply a portmanteau of 'female domination'.

[Strict Susan]

Female domination, although not necessarily BDSM, has roots going back thousands of years. Matriarchal societies, those where women were supreme, pre-date the relatively recent appearance of patriarchal thinking. The rebellion against "supreme" women happened over several centuries, but not least among the early followers of both Christianity and Islam - and some might say that much of the original teachings of both these religions is aimed as much to destroy the "power" of women as to establish the Theistic beliefs.

Here's a few links if you're interested in finding out more:

http://shark.comfsm.fm/~crgood/Mythology/EN206_Matriarchal_Society.htm
http://www.gift-economy.com/athanor/athanor_005.html
http://www.hagia.de/en/index.php?page=academy
http://www.experiencefestival.com/matriarchy_-_matriarchal_societies

Also, more specifically femdom, take a look at these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_Sutton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_Berkley
http://www.jahsonic.com/TheresaBerkeley.html
http://public.diversity.org.uk/deviant/ssflg1.htm

[thelantern]

Strict Susan, there was no such thing as matriarchal societies, at most, there were prehistoric matrilineal societies, this is in large part due to the nomadic structure of prehistoric mankind.

Prehistoric matriarchal societies are a myth at worst and an exaggeration at best.

[kenrug]

Leopold von Sacher-Masoch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_in_Furs) (yes, “masochism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/masochism)”) originally published Venus in Furs (http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/8vnsf10h.htm) (Venus im Pelz) in 1870. It’s an intriguing little book that strangely would not feel at all out of place amongst some of the more mainstream contemporary FemDomme/fetish works, though parts of it might strike some as disturbing. I have always considered it essential reading for anybody interested in the history of Female Domination in modern Western society – it was, as far as I know, the first “coming out” of a relatively famous enthusiast of Female Domination.

My mild disappointment with the work comes from a feeling that von Sacher-Masoch “wimped out” at the end of the book, no doubt feeling the need to distance himself from the more obviously passionate and personal (and better written) ideas that occupied the first 90% of the book.

Credit to Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/) for making this book available.

[Strict Susan]

Strict Susan, there was no such thing as matriarchal societies, at most, there were prehistoric matrilineal societies, this is in large part due to the nomadic structure of prehistoric mankind.

Prehistoric matriarchal societies are a myth at worst and an exaggeration at best.

I don't believe so. There is a current "trendy" view among a minority of historians - mainly those who make the most noise - that matriarchal societies are a myth but there is, for example, substantial evidence that pre-patriarchal Greece was dominated by women for thousands of years before the patriarchal society took over and quite deliberately destroyed as much as they could of women's power - even to the extent that the myths and legends were re-written.
Take, as a good example, the myths about Medusa and see how they changed. There is ample evidence, not only from Greece but also from Libya, Egypt and throughout north Africa that Medusa (which means "sovereign female wisdom") was worshipped as the ultimate goddess above all other gods and goddesses. In around the 6th century BC the image of an all-powerful goddess became unnacceptable - because by that time man was fighting to establish himself as supreme over woman, and patriarchal Greece was rising. They tried to portray Medusa as "The Gorgon", religious rites were disrupted, Medusa's temples invaded, sacred groves of trees cut down, and the stories of evil invented to discredit Medusa as the representation of the power of Woman.
The Greeks were thorough in their destruction of Medusa's image, and with it most of the power of women in their society. And yet some writing remains:

She is Sovereign Female Wisdom. The female mysteries. All the forces of the primordial Great Goddess: The Cycles of Time as past, present and future. The Cycles of Nature as life, death and rebirth. She is universal Creativity and Destruction in eternal Transformation. She is the Guardian of the Thresholds and the Mediatrix between the Realms of heaven, earth and the underworld. She is Mistress of the Beasts, of Latent and Active energy.
She is the ultimate truth of reality, the wholeness beyond duality. She rips away our mortal illusions. Forbidden yet liberating wisdom. The untamable forces of nature. As a young and beautiful woman she is fertility and life. We must yield to her and her terms of mortality.

[Max]

Hello Susan,

I researched 'masochism' in men in the British Library and the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris. As far as I can tell, the term can be traced back to Richard von Kraft-Ebing, Professor of Medicine at the University of Gratz, who first published 'Psycopathia Sexualis' in 1887 (still in most good libraries).

Kraft-Ebing used the writings of Sacher-Masoch (for example 'Venus in Furs'). Subsequent 'Sexologists' such as Havelock Ellis - 'The Psychology of Sex' 1890 approx. and Robert Bloch, also 1890 approx. ran with Kraft-Ebing's taxonomy. Kraft-Ebing also invented the terms 'fetishism' 'coprophilia' (scat) and just about every other term currently used used to describe 'deviant' sexual activity.

Havelock Ellis (English) coined the term 'sadomasochism'. He also recorded that women had orgasms and ended-up being tried for obscenity in 1898!

Freud took on these terms fairly uncritically, I think. He thought that 'masochism' in men represented latent homosxuality, but he sems unsure on this point.

Kraft-Ebing had no empirical evidence on which to base his taxonomy (systematic naming) of sexual activity. He appears to have assumed that 'normal' sexual activity consists of heterosexual, missionary-position fucking. The existence of this board rather contradicts his assumption!

I suspect 'femdom' (a very recent term), is as old as patriarchy. Men seem to feel a need to escape, in private, the pressure of performing as men in public. I'm not sure that 'domination' really describes it. It seems to me that it's mainly women doing men a favour - though I see some women have fun with that!

I hope this is helpful to you - I haven't been back to check my sources, but I will. If I find any innacuracies in what I've said, I'll let you know.

As far as the debate about patriarchy is concerned, I would observe that history tends to be writen by the winners, in this case, men, so it's unreliable - see Rosalind Miles 'A Woman's History of the World'.

Kind Regards,

Max

[Max]

Oh - and this is for Raine, as well.

[Raine]

Female domination, although not necessarily BDSM, has roots going back thousands of years. Matriarchal societies, those where women were supreme, pre-date the relatively recent appearance of patriarchal thinking. The rebellion against "supreme" women happened over several centuries, but not least among the early followers of both Christianity and Islam - and some might say that much of the original teachings of both these religions is aimed as much to destroy the "power" of women as to establish the Theistic beliefs.

Here's a few links if you're interested in finding out more:

http://shark.comfsm.fm/~crgood/Mythology/EN206_Matriarchal_Society.htm
http://www.gift-economy.com/athanor/athanor_005.html
http://www.hagia.de/en/index.php?page=academy
http://www.experiencefestival.com/matriarchy_-_matriarchal_societies

Also, more specifically femdom, take a look at these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elise_Sutton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_Berkley
http://www.jahsonic.com/TheresaBerkeley.html
http://public.diversity.org.uk/deviant/ssflg1.htm


Thank you, Strict Susan, I will look these up. What is your personal defintion of Femdom? I think it a new term.

Lantern: do you have an education in anthropology or are you simply into biology? Dick seems a good word to articulate at this point.

Kenrug: Yes, yes I know all about it and how it had little notice before the last 50 years. I also know it has little to do with female domination. ;)

Max and S.Susan - I will have to get back to your longer posts, they are both begging to be answered.

Thank you all, until next time.
Raine

[thelantern]

Lantern: do you have an education in anthropology or are you simply into biology? Dick seems a good word to articulate at this point.Classy. I'd like to counter with a 'Fuck you' and a 'Your mother sucks cocks in hell'.

^--- Mistress Sara, Strict Susan, Sabina, sorry about that.

[Mistress Sara]

This stops now, or this thread (or individual posts) will be moved o the Flame Pit. Let's get back to the discussion.

[badger7]

I love it when a woman takes charge like that:worship:
-Badger

[badger7]

And just to try to contribute a little here, I asked a history professor at the university of ct about the matriarchal societies that preceeded the patriarchal societies in history, he said that there are beliefs about this idea but very little support, he refered to it as kind of an extremist view. And our conversation stopped there cause it woulda been weird to ask him about femdom......

Anyway, just trying to contribute a little something
-Badger

[kenrug]

I also know it has little to do with female domination.Naturally I would disagree. Wanda may not have started off as initiating the domination, but that in no way indicates she didn’t eventually get the idea. I might even be able to support an argument that there were times when she enjoyed it, though apparently guiltily.

I also disagree that it received no significant attention until 50 years ago. That may be a misreading of the historical record, with all due respect.

[Raine]

Classy. I'd like to counter with a 'Fuck you' and a 'Your mother sucks cocks in hell'.

^--- Mistress Sara, Strict Susan, Sabina, sorry about that.

Thank you for your post, lantern. I am sure you took the word "dick" quite out of context, and I appreciate that you do not know me enough to know how I choose my words. Nevertheless, I do appreciate and see that.