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insomniac6333
01-24-2007, 7:24 PM
Queening as it is often called developed from the sado masochistic
side of the BDSM scene whereby the use of a males face, and especially
mouth, nose and tongue are substituted for normal vanilla sexual
intercourse and masturbation, by the truly dominant woman.

From a submissive point of view I believe it places a male or female
in a total subservient position, under her usually well rounded bottom
and crotch. She sits on his face, or has his head trapped between her
strong thighs. The whole event is devoted to her pleasure, her orgasms
whereas the man's pleasure or pain, lack of satisfaction or
frustration, desires or fears are of little importance, if any.

This delightful sexual practice has a whole wealth of history behind
it. Many women in medieval households often had pages whom she would
address as - To Whom It May Concern: provide them with mouth, lip and
tongue service under their skirts while their husband was absent.
Because there was no penetration the women remained technically
faithful.

Many young boys had his first lessons in sex with his head underneath
a Mistress's backside, with her pussy vigorously riding his face.
Often young women still sexual virgins, enjoyed wonderful orgasms on a
male servant's mouths as part of their earliest sexual experiences.
The Chinese also adopted the art of facesitting and queening during
court sessions. Usually one very long tongued, trained male slave was
used by female royalty and court ladies. This was done in such a way
as it was as if they were going to the lavatory. The slave would be
summoned by the female then used as a toy and then after she had
ridden his face he would be dismissed casually. The Japanese also
developed brothels which would provide male slaves for such use by
visiting, paying women and girls.

The emphasis was on total pleasure for the woman with the male slaves
mouth and tongue providing only sexual service to the female genitals
referred to as 'cunnilingus' or 'cunnilinctus' or as some people refer
to it literally as cunt licking/ sucking. Though I personally prefer
the word pussy as cunt conjures up images of submissive woman which I
am not. The position of Queening properly places the woman on top of
the male face, using it ruthlessly and selfishly. The woman commands,
the slave obeys. He may be erect and frustrated and the fact that his
satisfaction goes unnoticed also adds to the sadistic pleasures
enjoyed by the woman. There are a number of different positions
whereby a woman can queen a man and a whole range of items have been
developed to aid the woman's pleasure including custom made queening
stools. These were derived in ancient Persia and were known as man
face stools. They were carefully constructed with a hole cut out
whereby the male face replacing the seat centre. Women would then
could lift their long skirts, sit down, and after carefully covering
the males face with her layers of skirt then with a gentle rhythmic
movement she would be able to enjoy private little orgasms even when
others were present. From my own experiences an old deck chair with a
cut out works equally as good ;)

Ancient Indian pornography depicts many scenes like that with a long
skirted woman obviously in ecstasy, riding a male face while looking
at the poor slaves enormous male
erection.

Even in more recent times Western time's governesses and nannies have
been recorded as teaching their young boys just how he should to
please her pussy with their tongues. Often a very frightened Victorian
boy knew intimately the underside of his nanny's skirts and could feel
the vice-like grip of her gartered thighs round his head. Often this
would be in the form of punishment for unruly behaviour. Under command
a boy might be ordered to take a seat then be followed by a rustling
lifting of her black, voluminous skirts and removal of Mistresses
panties then he would feel hot damp descent of her heavy buttocks and
pussy right onto the boy's face. Should the mistress not orgasm then
the boy would be in for a severe spanking.

The history of queening seems to stem from the sadistic pleasure a
demanding mistress gets from total submission from her subservient,
obedient man. The slave's role
developing so that he is only concerned with her total personal
pleasure and satisfaction. By using his mouth, lips, tongue and nose
are become merely tools by which she can pleasure her pussy and pay
attention her labia, clitoris. Often it is necessary to train a slave
to produce the desired effect and where appropriate by painful
punishment. The slave or sub needs to be taught in the proper use of
his facial features. The emphasis always being for her to gain the
maximum delight and orgasmic satisfaction without concern whatsoever
as to her slave's humiliation and discomfort. For the art of queening
he becomes nothing more than a sexual toy or playing, of no more
importance than her plastic boyfriend she can buy in any sex shop- all
essential to her sexual comfort and well being, but all equally
useable and disposable. Should Mistress become bored at his
unsatisfactory skills she may wish to watch favourite TV programme or
read a good book while she is being pleasured.

Often a mistress may gain pleasure from using a variety of different
males for her pleasure be it a under her well rounded backside and
pussy or more delightfully a handsome strong virile male of good
physique. Often a woman will use her cuckolded husband to humiliate,
and abuse him.

Occasionally a woman may like to add to her pleasure by using
additional paraphernalia such as mouth-dildo attached to their slave's
head, or chin or even sticking out of his mouth as another useful
accessory. This puts the emphasis on a longer pleasant, full, vaginal
passage orgasms, but may prevent sucking and licking by the male
victim depending on the model… Often it is more pleasurable to
blindfold a slave, thus eliminating any possible visual pleasure they
might obtain. Many women would delight in humiliating, tormenting and
tease their victims before and after this enforced cunnilingus.


For the art of "Fine are of queening" it is essential that the male
slave is more than intimate with those parts of a woman's anatomy
which require servicing by his tongue, lips and nose. Kneeling astride
his face with her strong thighs wrapped around his head, with his eyes
very close to her pussy is a pleasant torment. He may fear each part
of her sexual equipment, staring up into her vaginal passage while she
spreads her lips apart and memorizing her clitoris, labia and vulva.
Of course there can be real pleasure gained from smothering whereby
the woman keeps her underwear on so that he is only able to smell her
delicious scent.

However Mistress decides she may have to train him in the skills of
kissing and licking and sucking and pleasuring her sexually, paying
particular attention to her clitoris. He must suck and swallow her sex
juices. Sometimes it might be exciting for her to add a different
thrill to her pleasure, by making him afraid of her. At all times
however he must worship and adore her, give her total respect, and
recognize that is her superiority that has put him in his place.

Riding the male face requires careful, skilful experience, as much as is
required in learning to ride a horse or a bicycle ;). The gentle
rhythmic movements of her hips and buttocks are the key to success.
Also the careful placing of her moist pussy on the mouth or nose of a
slave is, of course, essential, and might require some wriggling
adjustments until the male's useful serviceable parts are properly
positioned. She may require that he has his nose against her anal rose
while his mouth and tongue serves her pussy. At all times she will of
course be as gentle or rough as she sees fit in order to gain
satisfaction from her tongue slaves. Often queening training may take
many hours of effort before the slaves tongue has the desired effect
on his mistress.

When mistress is finally cumming assuming he has been a good tongue
slave then at that moment it will be of no interest to her whatsoever
whether he suffocates, or chokes. After satisfaction she may decide to
relax, still sitting on his face and enjoy a cigarette, Fine glass of
wine or a cup of tea. Of course that means she will have to have
another waiting slave to go fetch her one. She may then decide to
casually ignore and dismount him or he may be lucky enough to be lent
out to her girlfriends if he is really good or she may decide to keep
him for herself after having spent so much time training him.

Frederik
01-24-2007, 11:32 PM
You are absolutely rigth about history.
Until the 19th century it was absolutely common that young girls from the upper class had servants or slaves for their pleasure and this way young girls who were hot, could stay virgins until a marriage.
Using a young boy this way was so common that nobody was even talking about that.
It was nothing but usual and most women did it.
The same way young pages or slaves were used especially by ladies also as a toilet.
For e.g. at the big caste of Versailles where lived about 18.000 people there was only 1 toilet and this toilet was was reserved to the military guard.
In the castle therefore you will not find any bathroom and with their wide dresses the ladies would have been forced to walk miles just for having a piss.
Almost all women theefore preferred the easiest way by using a page who were treated not much different like young slaves.

In the colonies where slavery was common it was easy and cheap for every european woman to get a young slave for this purpose and there is also one important development in regard of that:
As well as roman girls and ladies and as well als upper class women in European societies were using slaves or pages for facesitting, the more these women were extremely demanding in regard of sex when they were married.
Many husbands were not able to satisfy these demanding and very experienced women and young ladies and so homosexuality was increasing more and more.
With a yioung slave a lady was not obliged to have an patience because she made the rules and young slaves who did not fulfill the expectations of those demanding girls and ladies wer usually extremely hard punished. So they did what they were expected to do.
Even Maria Theresia the Emperess of Austria was always looking for handsome convicts in her prisons who were used by her and her ladies from the court only for this purpose. She herself said that for such a convict it wasd better to live some furthe time under these conditions than being hanged as he was condemned.
After some time of use by her and her ladies, those men got hanged or decaptivated and so there were no witnesses.
Very rarely she left to some their lives.
In all upper class households this was quite common and sio this way women and girls seemed to get what they were expecting.
The pages or slaves did not any choice but to do their very best.

face4wife2sit
01-25-2007, 8:26 PM
I read similar stories about ladies of the royal courts in aristocratic Europe using slaves and pages for oral pleasure and for toilet and similar stories coming from Imperial Japan and China, but there doesn't seem to be any historical record to confirm these stories.

buttmunch69
01-25-2007, 8:47 PM
Very interesting info, I knew there had to be a fair bit of 'history' to sitting, after all, anything that good will have been around for quite some time but it's nice to see some historical examples given, if anybody is aware of any more examples, I'd love to hear them.

Frederik
01-25-2007, 11:01 PM
Quite different to our times where anything gets public within a very short time, the upper class people in former were closely defending their private affairs.
About sexuality they did not speak and a public which could investigate did not exist.
So, you only find certain occasional hints about these things.
On the other side, for the upper class this was that much common that there was no need to talk about that.
In the case of Emperess Maria Theresia from Austria, you only can read at a certain place that she had difficulties to get children and because of this her physician was recommending to her to use intense oral stimulation.
It is hard to imagine that this was done by her husband.
In a more extreme way some Russian Emperesses had their slaves for sex and about these things we know more.
In regard of the position of a lady from the highest class it is out of imagination that these ladies were having quite normal sex with a male who was completely inferior to her.

LondonBob
01-26-2007, 3:57 AM
I love this historical stuff. I've always thought it was wishful thinking for the likes of us facesitting fans to believe men's faces were sat on as a matter of form. Insomniac's text was published in Madame magazine a number of years ago, and although I love the "article", I've always thought it to be a fantasy.

Fredrick, What you've said about it never being discussed within the higher classes in society and remaining private in a world without an intrusive press makes lots of sense and further fuels my fantasy that this sort of thing has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years.

I realise that no real proof exsists and there won't be any credible historians investigating this stuff, but it does make for some great stories. There's got to be some truth in this somewhere and also some historic proof if anyone had the research skills to find out.

I believe our emeritus professor of facesitting, a certain Erebus who used to frequent this forum some time ago, would be our best bet as a champion of historic truth.

redder100
01-26-2007, 7:56 AM
All very interesting and arousing, but is there any reliable evidence to support the claims made? Most of it sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Frederik
01-26-2007, 9:02 AM
We just know from some sources for e.g. in the case of Cleopatra that there were boys who were called guards of the Divine anus.
These boys had to take care of the anus of their Queen and it is also proved by sources that Egyptians like Cleopatra like to use honey inside their anus and as well in their vagina by believing this would help to ease digestion and to clean the anus as well as the vagina.
About Cleopatra there are some quite clear hints and proofs.
So, you can think that other ladies from the upper classes did the very same.
From ancient Greece we know from physicians of that time that they were recommending at that time to the ladies who often suffered of constipation that having licked the anus would ease and solve their problem.
Indeed many beasts lick fiorst of all the anus of a young beast after birth to stimulate the bowels.
Clearer proofs do not exist and I think ladies of that time did not speak in public about these things and if you look at literature of the last some thousand of years, there are only very few things about women reported because women were only interesting if they were extremely outstanding.
So, all of you who hope to find further hints about that topic will fail because there has been nothing reported about the life of women.
Katharina Di Medici for example was only mentioned becauise she was wearing tight jodphurs and the fact that she was riding her servants as human horses was almost not important.
Much more important was the fact that she was wearing tight trousers like a man when she rode.
So you can draw the conclusion that riding on a servant was not necessary to be mentioned because waht the upper clases were doing with inferior classes was no topic.

LondonBob
01-26-2007, 9:50 AM
The truth is out there...

SAS_Jack
01-26-2007, 10:59 AM
All very interesting and arousing, but is there any reliable evidence to support the claims made? Most of it sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Its fascinating stuff either way :)

Love the idea of this fetish going on for centuries, very thought provoking

al-uk
01-26-2007, 1:17 PM
Although I suspect much of the Madame article is wishful thinking/fantasy, its quite unlikely that facesitting has suddenly appeared in the latter half of the 20th century. Until recently it seems to have been well hidden. In the 1960s it was almost impossible to find facesitting either written about or illustrated. I searched both Penthouse, Playboy etc and apart from the odd hint in letters it was hardly refered to. I also asked about it in several 'sex/dirty book shops' and it was clear they did not really understand what I was asking about. The first magasine I found -- in the early 70s I think- which really covered the subject was 'Madam in a world of fantasy' followed by the 'Sadie Stern' mag...+ some Stantoons... the internet of course changed everything...

What might be useful would be to see if we can find any legit refs to facesitting in real historical records - or maybe paintings/drawings-- it would be good if we could start a thread on this....

buttmunch69
01-26-2007, 5:23 PM
Just a quick point.. I think there are a number of kinks that are considered to be very new, it's not much of an exageration to point out that it would seem that many people choose to believe that such common practices as blowjobs and pussy licking are somehow recent 'inventions'.
I suppose most people feel comfortable with this as they don't really wish to think of people of their grandparents age, or older, being involved in such things.
Regarding harsher or more extreme practices, try looking for any of the writings of De Sade, if you read enough of his stuff, you'll be surprised at how many kinks and perversions e writes about, now obviously, a lot of his stuff is the product of a somewhat deranged mind but I'm guessing quite a bit of it must have stemmed from some reality based experiences etc.

webmasterbob
01-26-2007, 9:13 PM
(moved to a different thread)

Frederik
01-26-2007, 10:50 PM
Exactly you say it. De Sade was indeed describing many of these practices.
But apart from all that, female sexuality has not been any topic over hundreds or thousands of years.
Facesitting is a typical expression of self-confident and independant female sexually and therefore a clear expression of female independance.
Only in the last 40 years an increasing emancipation of women was about to take notice that women have also their own sexuality and before female sexuality just did not exist.
So, if women in former times had their own sexuality, in the public opinion it did not exist and so only wealthy or upper class women were able to live their own sexuality and even if they had their own sexuality they had to do it in a personal and very intimate atmosphere.
Almost any written traces are mostly and most exclusively dealing of males and women do not show up quite often.
In lliterature there are few traces of women rare enough and even if you look at De Sade and his stories, you will see that women play mostly an inferior role even in regard of sexual practices.
Real female sexuality which was different from male sexuality did not fit into the ideas of males and as mostly males were also dominating in literature there was no need to describe sexual practices of women which were a long time regarded as inferior to males.
Therefore I think and believe that facesitting was a privilege of upper class women who were enlightened enough to have their own sexuality but for the vast majority of women this was out of topic.

Frederik
01-27-2007, 4:37 AM
Dear members,

female sexuality through history was for a very long time completely not interesting and did not play a role.
Women have been regarded for a very long time as inferior to males and the only end of a woman was to marry and get children for her husband.
So, in history only few women were important and played a role in public life.
Therefore we do not know very much about women because most males did not even feel necessary to mention about women.
Up to the 20th century the public opinion was that women do not have sexual feelings at all.
It would be quite strange if we could find real good sources about female sexual feelings.
As far as I know, they do not exist.

We only know from some rare sources about the attitude of some important women like Katharin athe great or Queen Mary or the Emperess Maria Theresia.
This women were powerful and therefore interesting but about their sexuality and their attitude to sexuality we know very little.
Those wome were protecting their intimate sphere as much as they could.

In a quite open way as women are explaining their needs and their attitude to sexuality, we only have since about 30 or 40 years and even up to the 1970ies female sexuality was nothing but a taboo.
So, I am not surprised that even in sex magazines from that time yoe find extremely few about facesitting or oral satisfaction of women.

After my opinion, only very high-class women were aware of their own specific sexuality and able to develop their own way of sexuality.
For sure at the castle of Versailles women were using pages and for sure even ladies from the middle-class in England were using pages or young boys as we know in certain hints from Charles Dickens in his novels just like "The bad old days" or by the descriptions of De Sade.

And of course I think those women found out quickly as well as women today how easy and satisfying facesitting and oral service can be.
No risk to get pregnant and having fun that was an ideal solution for sex-interested women and girls and so I think facesitting was done more often as we may think.
On the other side any sexual activity of women had to be covered as well as possible in regard of the public opinion that women do not need sexuality for real. So, it is clear to me that you will not find much about this topic in literature and other sources.
But regarding medieval minuments you find quite often figures at cathedrals showing quite open facesitting and oral service of women and so we can be sure that people of that time knew very well about facesitting.

If we assume that women of former times were not more stupid and not less interested in satisfying sexuality, we can be quite sure that those women and girls who had the opportunity, were using facesitting and oral service.
Still today even very emancipated women and girls are shy to try facesitting and oral service and after my opinion a vast majority of modern women can not deal with facesiting and oral service.
Even today these women and girls are a minority because most women stay in their old understanding of female role.

But it is quite clear to me that Roman ladies who stayed alone over years at home while their husbands were at war somewhere did not stay without any kind of sexuality and ruling sometimes hundreds of real slaves who had to be at any disposition of their mistresses it was nothing but logic that these ladies were using slaves and to avoid pregnancy at those times which would have been deadly for a lady or a girl from the free class, the easiest solution was to use young slaves for facesitting and oral service.
The same development we have in medieval times and I hardly can imagine that those women and girls were staying over years without any sex.

We only can draw conclusions but we do not know anything for sure.

In old Indian and japanese or chinese books we find clearly explained facesitting so that we can say that those people of former times were very well informed about these practices.
Why should high classed chinese or japanese women not have used young slaves for all that as they had usually plenty of slaves and could do with them whatever they liked.

LondonBob
01-27-2007, 5:05 AM
If you take a look at the practice of male homosexuality, this has been acknowlwdged throughout history. There are references everywhere, for example ancient Greece and Rome as well as the old and new testament bible.

The interesting point is that there is little if no reference to female homosexuality as it seems this was of no importance to the male writers of a male history of the world.

As Frederik points out, women's sexuality was of little or no importance to writers so it would seem to make sense that there is very little written about the subject of women using men and indeed other women for sexual pleasure.

The lack of real evidence seems to make sense but perhaps this is an easy way out of rigourous historical research. Just so long as I don't have to be the one who approaches the librarian asking for books on the subject!

Frederik
01-27-2007, 8:42 AM
You will find very little about all that.
In Germany there was existing up to the 19th century the jus primae noctis and this meant that the Duke or King was allowed to spend the first night with every woman who married.
August the strong from Saxon for example is told that he had about 900 children during his whole life because he had the right to have sex with every woman or girl in his country.
Young men in Prussia for example were extremely afraid to get caught for the use of the Royal court.
It is not said why they were so afraid but it is known that the police of that time always was checking through towns and villages for handsome young men. Some we know for sure were destinated as sedan-hcair bearers for the upper class ladies at court and about the rest there is nothing said ar
all.
But anyway it must have ben so demeaning for many families and young males that lots of them preferred to escape to the USA in order to start a free life there.
The same developments we have in whole Europe up to the 20th century.So, there must have been something which made those young men so afraid that they preferred to take the risk to leave their home and country for ever by shipping to America.
I think it was also the fear being used as a sex slave by all kinds of upper class ladies.

al-uk
01-27-2007, 10:17 AM
I think there is little doubt throughout history that women in priviliged positions etc used their power over male servants, slaves etc to obtain sexual favours. What I'm not convinced about is whether facesitting - as opposed oral sex- played a major part in this. I'd love to believe it was true, but even in todays liberated world its difficult to find many women who are really keen to dominate a male by sitting on his face (ie no fee).

It would be good to try to identify literature etc which refers to it. I think the earliest I'm aware of is the brothel scene in James Joyce's Ulysees.

LondonBob
01-27-2007, 10:46 AM
If one had the power to see all the things that have gone on in this world, there would be thousands if not millions of little tales that would undoubtedly tickle the fancy of we facesitting fans. Sadly we are not omnipotent (although it would be nice to be such a great word) and we must rely on historical reference. Alas there is very little and I'm not just talking about written refences.

If there was such a thing as queening stools for example, they would surely have turned up on the Antiques Roadshow (a UK television programme)
Alas there is very little if no real evidence so I think the best thing we can do is to make it up. It is after all a fantasy.

Here's one I wrote earlier....


Archaeology is often a detective game. I was on a dig in Iraq. We were digging on the site of a small city that had been claimed by the encroaching dessert over a thousand years ago. The city was home to around three or four thousand people, almost all of them women going by the remains we found, but this isn’t unique. The city in all probability was a widow city. I’ll explain. It’s well documented that throughout our male dominated history, widows are perceived as obsolete. In certain cultures, when a man died, it was expected that his wife, being of no further use to society, would end her own life. Most women with an ounce of common sense fled, and so grew the widow cities. Safe havens from brutal traditions. My gender doesn’t usually affect my work, but being a woman, it was hard not to take things a little personally.

Because of the dry dessert heat, most of what was left behind over a millennium ago had been exceedingly well preserved. I was uncovering a house typical of the era, and furnished accordingly. I’d found chairs, tables, plenty of earthenware pots and pans, all in pristine condition. The house also yielded a lot of weaponry, which was unexpected seeing as the occupants were probably all female. It was exciting to find such well preserved items, but my discoveries weren’t going to rock the archaeological world. As the dig progressed however, I came across one particular object that had no obvious function. I did some research to try and find any similar pieces of furniture that may have been found, but nothing like this had turned up before. It was an archaeological mystery. To solve it would be to fit another small piece to a giant historic jigsaw puzzle. Piecing together this jigsaw puzzle is what archaeologists do and so I looked for an answer. What was this object used for?

It was carved from a solid block of wood, about six foot long, two foot high and two foot wide. A trough ran its length and one end was slightly raised. On the lip of the trough there were two sets of parallel slots. Perhaps they were used for lifting it. It could almost have been a narrow bed and so I laid down in it to test my theory. It was too uncomfortable to be a bed. My body was wedged tightly into the groove and my head, which was propped up on a deeply indented platform, felt a bit like an egg in an egg cup. This was not a sleep inducing piece of furniture but it was meant to house the human body. The way that the inside had been carefully contoured told me that, but I was still none the wiser as to its usage. The answer came by accident. A small group of us were leaving the following day so we had a little drink together and sure enough the alcohol worked its magic. As the sunset over the Iraqi dessert, five rather drunken archaeologists sat together in a thousand year old house and contemplated the previous tenants.

There were twelve or so women all living together in this one small dwelling. Most other houses that had been uncovered in the area were similar. Between ten and fifteen people living together and working as a unit to serve the needs of a female population in some way or other. One house had a primitive kiln that had baked bread whilst another had various building tools. Here was a city of dispossessed women who had grouped together according to their various skills and talents in order to serve the civic population. Here was a society that demanded respect and further study. Sitting there, a little drunk, I decided to devote time to writing a paper on the subject. I looked around my group of drinking partners and wondered whether any of them had the same idea but they were all studying my unidentified artefact. I suppose if we hadn’t been slightly drunk we’d never have stumbled on the answer.

A noted archaeologist, I won’t mention his name, passed out whilst lying on my unidentified block of wood. His body was wedged tightly in the trough and his head rested face up in the egg cup shaped scoop at one end. The other lightweights trooped off to bed leaving myself, and a close female colleague who shall also remain nameless, to polish off the rest of the booze. Feeling a little mischievous we found some planks of wood and fitted them through the slots carved in my wooden relic. As we slotted the last one into place over his neck, my sleeping colleague awoke to find himself completely trapped and immobilised. We sat back to giggle at our handy work and our colleagues helpless predicament. He took it all in rather good humour and it was only when he made a crude sexual joke about being raped by the two of us that the word eureka came and slapped me hard in the face.







It was so obvious. His pelvis and face were the only accessible parts of his body. This was, for want of a better expression, a rape bench. It was a piece of furniture designed by women to derive sexual pleasure from an imprisoned man. The pieces all fell into place. The realisation excited me both in a professional way and a sexual way. The idea of a helpless male was a real turn on for me, and here was a titillating chance to research a small corner of history where woman ruled supreme and male sex slaves weren’t just an idle fantasy. On a drunken impulse, and also partly to shut him up, I sat on my colleagues upturned face, lightly at first, but then settling full weight. My female colleague was stunned and then amused by my bold action. I don’t know what the man underneath me thought. It was probably extremely uncomfortable for him. His nose must have been squashed flat against the seat of my jeans. I wondered why he hadn’t turned his head to one side and then realised that the furniture had been designed to stop him from doing so. I felt a tingle of excitement and felt an urge to remove my jeans and really have a good grind on his face, but after a month on a dig, I was pretty rank. Showers, baths and other washing facilities weren’t exactly easy to find in the middle of the dessert. I suddenly realised that he would smell through my jeans just how filthy I was and I leapt off his face. I assumed he’d be angry, but when I looked down he was smiling. He said that it was fun and I should stay seated on his face, which for some reason I found quite annoying. My female colleague had finally stopped giggling and was pointing to his tent shaped groin. His erection annoyed me even more. I didn’t like him enjoying the experience. For some reason it detracted from my own wicked pleasures.

So here’s how I justify what came next. First and foremost we were all very drunk, a universal excuse for outrageous behaviour. I could also explain that I was doing a bit of research work, just doing my job, another universal excuse for dreadful deeds. Of course the real reason was about all of us just being horny but I’ve got my story and I’m sticking to it. As I watched my partner in crime undoing my helpless colleagues trousers I tried to picture a similar scene a thousand years previous. Perhaps the warrior widows who had lived here had captured men travelling through the dessert. The finest specimens had been trapped into this evil apparatus and then sexually used, almost certainly to the point of their deaths. The men who had died in this solid block of wood had no-doubt fathered countless children in the last few weeks or months of their lives, but this ingenious piece of furniture had clearly been designed to fulfil another purpose. It wasn’t just a baby making machine. There was also a built in pleasure principal, the immobilising headrest.

Once trapped, the male victim would be powerless to resist any woman choosing to use his face as her “pleasure seat.” He would have been forced to use his tongue and I tried to imagine the owners of orifices that his unfortunate nose had to penetrate. Over a thousand years ago, and in this part of the world, most people didn’t live much past forty years old, and girls were married aged twelve or thirteen. I assumed the average age of the population would have been around twenty five years old. There had been around three or four thousand women living in this lost city. Surely mathematics dictated we would find similar artefacts. I made a mental note and pictured the scenario. My female colleague was poking around disappointedly at my male colleagues now flaccid penis. I imagined her to be a twenty five year old widow of a thousand years ago. She has fled her home city and after a hazardous journey, she’s found this safe haven. She wants to fulfil her strong mothering instinct and bear a child but the only sperm to be had for miles around is in this very building, laying helpless in this very piece of furniture. She negotiates a deal with the women who have captured the unfortunate man and then waits her turn. She enters this very room where he lies at her mercy. His over worked penis lies soft and dormant. Here is a girl who up until now has lived in a male dominated society. For the first time in her life she has power over a man. She looks at his upturned face and then sits on it. Perhaps two or three women at a time would use him. Younger women, older women, big women, little women, fat, thin, tall, short, any women could just sit right down on his face and there was nothing he could do about it. How difficult could it have been to make him use his tongue in various satisfying ways?

As I slipped out of my drunken fantasy I found my hand rubbing softly at the crotch of my jeans. I was very turned on. If I were to just go and fuck his face right now it would be such excellent research material. He was a man of science. When he sobered up he would understand the historical value of our shared experience. My rather unhygienic state merely added a sense of authenticity to the experiment. People were a lot more smelly a thousand years ago. An olfactory fact! Content in the thought that the three of us had long since passed the outrageous behaviour barrier, I decided what the hell and removed my jeans. I didn’t dare check the state of my panties. They were a comfortable pair of white cotton knickers that I’d worn constantly for three days and I knew they were pretty filthy. A little voice told me I couldn’t do this really but my sexual urge took over and I took the plunge. I sat down full weight on his helpless features. I was facing his feet and watching my friend trying to bring life to his shrunken member.

I think I heard him whine a short exclamation of disgust but my bum quickly muffled him. I wriggled about a bit to get comfortable and the little voice told me it was important to let him breathe. This time I listened to my voice of common sense and made sure that he could gasp a bit of air, but only a bit and a pretty rancid bit at that. Enough to keep him alive and licking! I realised that the survival time of a man could be measured in days rather than weeks and months. I made a mental note. The research was paying off. I giggled at the thought. My friend who was working on his penis also giggled an evil giggle. He was rock hard again. This time I didn’t care about his erection. It only justified the genius of the contraption. So what if he enjoyed himself too. It made us all complicit. Less likely to be raised in conversation at some future dinner party! I started to grind myself over his face, slowly at first, and then harder and faster. I kept catching whiffs from down below, but that only turned me on more. I pictured myself forcing my underwear into his mouth with instructions to clean and that’s when I had my first climax. As the waves of delight pulsated through my body I made a mental note. The night was still young.

The things the two of us girls did with my helpless colleague, and the things we made him do to us, were rather naughty and extremely revolting. I assumed I’d never hear from him again after the humiliations we’d heaped on him that night, but a few weeks later I received a call from him. He was very excited by a text that had been found on a dig a hundred miles or so from our Widow City. It was a perfectly preserved text written on parchment. The text was written in by a man of “twenty eight seasons old.”

It seemed that in the first paragraph he claims to have been kidnapped by women and taken to a place where “evil female spirits did unspeakable acts.” My colleague felt we should get together and translate the rest of it. He felt that we could both add a unique insight to the text, but as the translation progressed it became clear that our experience was only limited to a one off sexual game. For the man who had written this text a thousand years ago, it was real. Although he eventually did escape, he wrote this text as a suicide note. The shame and humiliation were too much for this man.
Ancient Text Translated.


This is basically a suicide note written over a thousand years ago. It is a perfectly preserved parchment that was found in the Iraqi desert a couple of miles from the city of Basra. It describes a man’s capture, sexual enslavement and eventual escape from a city populated entirely by women. The literal translation of the first few sentences goes something like this. “To Allah I make this confession before I face my eternity. Twenty eight seasons have passed since I entered God’s garden. The shame that darkens my soul must be lifted, and being a man of God, I will write the truth so that others may know of the dark city of evil she devils who commit unspeakable profanities and thereby seek to destroy the glory of the Almighty. The truth shall give vengeance for God and man. Take heed of my warning”

If I carry on being so literal the text is difficult to understand so for the purposes of clarity I will loosen up the style a little and provide an edited version to make it easier to read. A full literal translation of this text can be obtained from the University of Basra.

As our trade caravan travelled to Baghdad along the Southern route we were set upon and robbed by a band of ferocious women. I alone survived the attack and awoke to find myself imprisoned within a strange piece of furniture. I was unable to move. Because my head and neck had been immobilised, all that I could see was the ceiling of a darkened room. My clothes had been taken from me and I was lying on my back with only my face and genitals exposed. I glimpsed a girl from the corner of my eye. When she realised that I was awake she ran from the room only to return seconds later with five or six other women. Although I found their dialect difficult to understand, they spoke in my own language. They stood around looking down on me. They seemed very pleased with me. Without warning, suddenly one of them sat down on my face. I tried to turn my head but couldn’t. She was sitting directly over my eyes nose and mouth with no feeling for my discomfort and humiliation. Thankfully she stood after only a few seconds but to my horror it was only to hoist her robes so that she could place her nakedness over my exposed features.

Here was pure evil. My head was unable to move and this creature was actually going to exploit my helplessness and force my face into the most intimate and filthy part of her body. As with most evil people, she was extremely unclean and the smell was unbearable. As she wriggled above, I felt almost a part of the furniture that I was trapped in. It was as if she was just getting comfortable on her favourite stool.

A pair of hands began to manipulate my penis and to my everlasting shame I became rampant. As they robbed me of my seed, the woman on my face began to grind herself down. It was difficult to breathe but she seemed unaware of my problems. All she wanted to do was to gain physical pleasure from my upturned features. When I did manage to find air to breathe it was rank and fetid as my nose was wedged deep within her stinking anus. She raised herself a little and commanded me, as if I was a common slave, to use my tongue. Of course I refused to carry out such a foul act but great pain was inflicted upon my body until I was forced to comply with her demonic wishes. She sat heavily down again. Her vagina pushed against my mouth and shamefully I used my tongue to give her pleasure. After a while she slid forward and forced my tongue into a tighter and more acrid orifice. I cried at my debasement, but fearful of my life I used my mouth according to her wishes. She dismounted, but the relief was short lived. My eyes opened long enough only to see another naked rump descending onto my face. It was as if I was in a nightmare from which I couldn’t awaken.

Time was distorted. I think I counted fourteen days and fourteen nights imprisoned in this wooden cage. I have slept little in that time. Apart from twice a day when I am freed for a short time, my face has been used as a pleasure seat. One after the other they came to sit on me. Some were younger, maybe 23 seasons and some were older, maybe 40 or 50 seasons. The older women wanted my seed and they wanted the pleasure that my nose and tongue gave them. The younger women were more wicked and spiteful and found their pleasure in shaming and humiliating me. They tortured me and forced me to lick the filth from their unclean bottoms. They laughed at me, spat on me and one particular group of females who visited me on a number of occasions actually urinated on my face. Human beings would not be capable of such foul acts. That is how I knew that they were evil spirits and not God’s children.

There were times that I thought I was going to die. When a woman of portly size seated herself on my face, breathing became very difficult and at times impossible. I slipped from consciousness many times only to reawaken in the same terrible nightmare. My seed was drained at every possible opportunity and although it became painful, the experience was insignificant compared to the horrors that were perpetrated on my face, after all, my groin can neither smell nor taste. Had I not escaped I am certain that by now I would be dead, yet Allah has spared me so that I may write this warning. This city of evil lies at the southern edge of the dessert, three days walk Northwest of the Gamolah Oasis. May the forces of God gather and destroy this wicked place.

I have made my peace with Allah and now I end this shameful life to be reborn in purity and without memory of such evil deeds.
Reply With Quote

redder100
01-27-2007, 11:18 AM
This is all very interesting and I for one suspect that facesitting did take place between women and subordinate males in the past. However, too many of the messages make use of unsupported claims and are therefore
unconvincing. If you claim that upper class Roman ladies face sat their slaves, then how did you find this out? Did you read it on a website, in a book or see a picture or an exhibit at a museum? I know this is not a class in the methodology of historiography, but we should make a distinction between what we know from sources and what we imagine might have been the case.
I'm especially curious about the Egytian practices that were referred to.

Londonbob: excellent story. It almost seems like authentic source material.

Frederik
01-27-2007, 11:52 AM
Thank you very much London Bob for your excellent contribution.
We today are used today to have convincing proofs of anything.
In former times peope did certain things and did not loose word over that what they did.
After the muslim religion the worst that can come out of a body that are things that come out of a female body.
So far as I know a man who swallowed the waste of a woman can not come to paradise because he is dirty.
Cleanness therefore is on eof the most important things for a muslim and even much more important as in christian societies.
So, if an enemy would be forced to swallow the waste of women, the winner has not only captured that man as his slave but he also has captured his soul.

From British reports in the 19th century it is known that in the area of Afghanistan there were tribes who left male prisoners to their women who could use and torture them until they were dead.
The British were that much shocked that they kept away for a very long period of the area of Afghanistan.
Humiliation of prisoners was welcom eto the women and welcome by the victorious men because they could force their prisoners to do things they never would have done.

Dear LondonBob please tell us more about your experiences. I am quite eager to learn more because I am also always looking for further and clearer proofs.

Frederik
01-28-2007, 12:40 AM
Dearest LondonBob,

being a foreigner, I needed some time to understand your contribution. I think this is indeed a clear evidence that these things happened.
In regard of Roman times we just have insinuations in a series of contempary literature.
Roman satirists were denouncing at many occasions the luxury life of Roman ladies and their harsh and cruel treatment of slaves.
In an outspoken way they did not call special practices.
But at the city of Pompeji there are lots of paintings left in the houses which give clear evidence that oral practices were quite common and well known.

All those who have doubts can find hints in ancient literature although you will not find clear and outspoken sexual practices.
You will find only hints.

Just as LondonBob writes, it is a job for a detective to find these hints spread all over in contemporary literature.

Anyway dear LondonBob your story is absolutely thrilling and I would love to know as much as possible about all tat because I am as well as you always searching for new evidence.

LondonBob
01-28-2007, 4:49 AM
As far as I know Fredrik, there's no REAL evidence that facesitting was an accepted practice throughout history. There's just rumour and wishful thinking on our part. There are a few references in ancient Indian erotic art although again, that in itself is not real evidence. As I've said, I'm certain that it has happened, but when, where and how I don't know.

hamerlick
01-28-2007, 5:22 AM
This is a great topic. One note about why it would not be talked or written about is, I think, because most men, including myself, in the past where most likely very ashamed of there submissive thought's. We where raised to be so MACHO that most guy's I know my age (I'm 43) 15 year's ago would'nt even admit we liked licking pussy. Even to this day I would not tell my friend's that I enjoy being sexualy dominated by a woman with big thigh's and bottom's ! And I suspect it's true of woman of the past who where expected to more or less be subservient to the male ! Now I think with the internet we have the ability to remain "somewhat" anonomous so this help's truth's come out. Do you guy's and girl's agree ?

Frederik
01-28-2007, 10:50 AM
Dear LondonBob,

in general you are right. But at the satyrs of Juvenal for example you find some hints.
Real evidence you do not even find about the sexual attitude of white women in the colonies or during the time of slavery in the South of the USA.
If there were practices like facesitting the women stayed completely quiet and as far as I learned women can keep a secret much better than any man.

The description of yourself sitting on the face of a collegue of you is quite interesting. I think every man would have been not only surprised but rather shocked being caught in such a wooden thing and being completely helpless to anything that is coming from above.
So, we could call this wooden thing an ancient smother-box.

Being used by elder girls at boarding school quite often because it was usual, I remember that at my times the girls and boys did not have a shower every day.
Usually every 3 days or longer we had the opportunity for a shower and so the girls were smelling of course but I never found that they smelled filthy.
The first moment before they sat and came down it smelled a little bit like fish but as they finally sat, I did not smell anything and the taste of their vaginal discharge was not different to me.
Only the very first few times I had problems with that, so I think your collegue got used quite quickly to your pussy and its smell and taste, even if you did not have a shower for a few days.

insomniac6333
01-29-2007, 12:17 AM
I'm so glad I posted that article. Every response was nothing less than fascinating.

mcmerlin
01-29-2007, 11:49 AM
But at the city of Pompeji there are lots of paintings left in the houses which give clear evidence that oral practices were quite common and well known.


Im sorry to say that , but thats not correct.
The paintings you speak about, were found in an ancient brothel in Pompeji! Here the rare cunnilingus picture.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/511/cunnilinguswe4.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cunnilinguswe4.jpg)

disclaimer:
Image is public domain, copyright has expired
This applies to the United States, Canada, the European Union

Cunnilingus was also an undesirable form of male submission to the female, for the Roman society.
If a man wants to do it, his only chance was to visits a prostitute.
Poor Roman women,I need a time machine :)

pearl
01-29-2007, 3:19 PM
I have read some similar stuffs before, very interesting.......lol

face4wife2sit
01-30-2007, 1:38 PM
After the muslim religion the worst that can come out of a body that are things that come out of a female body.
So far as I know a man who swallowed the waste of a woman can not come to paradise because he is dirty.
Cleanness therefore is on eof the most important things for a muslim and even much more important as in christian societies.
So, if an enemy would be forced to swallow the waste of women, the winner has not only captured that man as his slave but he also has captured his soul.


This idea started much earlier than the muslim religion! In fact, it has its roots in Genesis which accuses Eve of the original sin (BTW, the muslim religion blames both Adam and Eve equally for the original sin!). For the longest time, European men would not go down on their women but they expected the women to go down on them! The stories of priests sitting at tables under which women were servicing them orally are well known. It was only because of the sexual revolution and women's lib that men started to venture into cunnlingus and discover how wonderful it is and how much women enjoyed it.

To this day, some Jews will only intercourse with their women through a sheet with a hole in it.

sitonahappyface62
01-30-2007, 5:27 PM
This is all very arousing but I'd like to see some genuine footnotes and none of this "sources say." What sources, this stuff should be verifiable.

buttmunch69
02-01-2007, 6:41 PM
This is all very arousing but I'd like to see some genuine footnotes and none of this "sources say." What sources, this stuff should be verifiable.

Without wishing to come across as being 'confrontational' about this, I really think you're asking a lot, quite simply, anecdotal evidence aside, what would you consider to be a reputable source ?

What would you choose to believe?

For me, simply because you don't find hard, quantifiable evidence to support the fact that something definitely happened, does that really mean that it didn't happen ?

I mean, I don't know how much time and effort our ancestors spent talking about the thrills of female masturbation, simply because it's not really written about all that nuch does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that it didn't happen.
I think I'm right in saying that the reason why lesbianism was not considered an abberation in Victorian England was because Queen Victoria did not beleive that women would engage in sexual practices outside of heterosexual ones.
So, are we then to believe that this was true....
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of accounts from the legends of Lesbos to suggest otherwise.

My own feeling on the subject is that facesitting has been around for quite a while, I'd guess at tens of thousands of years.
What would be interesting, to me at least, would be if you or someone else could suggest why it wouldn't have been.

If you really don't believe that it was happening in the dim and distant past then would you like to try to narrow it down to a time when you think it was suddenly 'discovered' or invented.
All the best

Frederik
02-02-2007, 12:42 AM
Thank you for your contribution. We do not know how our ancestors were regarding this topic and we do not know what they were discussing about this special topic.
We only can suspect what they were thinking because there are no written sources we could rely on.
Even today we know very little about the female attitude to facesitting or cunnilingus although for example Nancy Friday was doing an excellent research.
If you would confront a girl or a lady today with the topic of cunnilingus you risk that she will react quite strange.
Of course there are meanwhile more women and girls who would accept but anyway cunnilingus is as far as I can see in the female world anything else but common.
So we only can draw certain conclusions from our actual situation to the situation at former times.
Women who like facesitting and oral service are usually quite self-confident and aware of their feminity and even today rather rare.
So, if in ancient times cunnilingus and other oral services were used by women or girls, I think it was reserved to the upper classes and if they did they did it in complete intimacy and secrecy.

mfriend
02-04-2007, 1:12 PM
This discussion about the history of facesitting is fascinating. It reminds me of a small historical note I uncovered while an exchange student with a rural Swedish family.

It seems back in the days of Viking raiders they would bring home, along with their plunder, small boys for their women folk to sit on. The men were often out raping and pillaging through Europe and these boys would keep the women happy during those long cold boring winters. Sometimes though, in the passions of the moment, they might accidently smother the captive.

Another aspect was that facesitting/smothering, whatever you call it, continues to this day in all nordic countries. I lived with a large rural family, actually it was two families combined with assorted relatives. The men folk weren’t home, just like in the days of the Vikings, not out raiding but working on North Sea oil rigs (these people were loaded; oil workers are well paid). Unfortunately I was too old to be considered as a candidate for facesitting (darn) but I sure saw enough of it.

Facesitting was a common accepted everyday occurrence. This family was very religious, devout Lutherans with Bibles in every room. They were all good decent people. The women didn’t talk about facesitting, they just did it - continually! It was all very casual and they said its done throughout all northern Europe. It was no big thing to them and had been going on for generations. They even had a chalk board with a schedule showing with whom, how long, etc.
Just a small note, the nose seemed to be the most used method of, ...er...stimulation.

The household consisted of a large number of girls and women off all ages. There were 5 typical blonde haired blue eyed boys ages 6, 9, 10, 11, 12. I won’t go any further. Email me if anyone wants more information.

MFRIEND

al-uk
02-05-2007, 12:17 PM
Are you sure this isnt yet more wishful thinking?

I lived in Sweden for over a year and never saw, or heard of, any such facesitting + often this board often has Swedes complaining about lack of it i Sverige!!

mfriend
02-05-2007, 2:19 PM
HA! No facesitting in Sweden. I’ll have you know I did my undergraduate work in facesitting at UCLA with advanced work at Harvard Smother School. I received my PhD. In Facesitology at the Gutmeir Institute in Bern Switzerland. My thesis was on “The Effects of Pubic Hair on the Victims Facial Muscles.” I am now a paid consultant to the UN on all Facesitting matters.

Did I mention my Joan Wise E. Staton schlorships.

DR. MFRIEND

buttmunch69
02-05-2007, 6:01 PM
While this topic seems to have gone a little offtrack in recent posts, I'm still curious as to why people would think that facesitting is only a recent part of sexual behaviour, as I said above, I'm pretty certain that it's been going on for millenia, would anybody like to offer any 'evidence' or even just a rational argumnet as to why this wouldn't be the case ?

Frederik
02-05-2007, 10:46 PM
This sounds very interesting and I would like to know more about that.
I just remember for my own part when I was staying in England for 1 year in a family when I was 12 years old that the young lady was doing the same with me.
She was about 28 and her husband over 45 years old and he was off during the whole week, so that I stayed the wole week alone with her.
Being a foreigner and very far away from home I did not have any chance to resist and she told me that what she did was nothing but common and usual.
Fortunately she was a quite beautiful lady but anyway I hated to be always at her disposition but I did not dare to say anything and she made me do the chores as well.

LondonBob
02-06-2007, 3:44 AM
While this topic seems to have gone a little offtrack in recent posts, I'm still curious as to why people would think that facesitting is only a recent part of sexual behaviour, as I said above, I'm pretty certain that it's been going on for millenia, would anybody like to offer any 'evidence' or even just a rational argumnet as to why this wouldn't be the case ?

There's no rational argument to prove it did or didn't happen. It is a sexual act and I agree that it almost certainly has "gone on" at some time and in some places. It's the real evidence one way or another that's missing. Were one to give the matter proper research, real evidence may be found. Like I said before, real research is expensive, time consuming and frankly embarrassing. How would we begin to look into this? Best to let the uncertainty fuel our fantasies.

suffocated1
02-06-2007, 6:09 AM
I visited the Middle East a long time ago and saw a series of murals in a cave along the Red Sea depicting how it all started. Facesitting first began in 11 BC when a woman had her hands cut off for stealing. Her husband was lying in bed one night and asked his wife if she could scratch his nose. Unable to use her stumps she used her buttocks to rub his nose. And the rest, as they say, is history.

LondonBob
02-06-2007, 9:33 AM
I knew there was a rational explanation. We can always trust you Suffocated1 to clarify these things for us. So obvious when you think about it.

Logan
02-07-2007, 7:42 AM
Now I understand, it all makes sense to me thanks Suffocated1

malcom1
02-08-2007, 8:27 AM
man,, for the first time in my life,, i think i would have rather been born a while back instead of now.

mfriend
02-08-2007, 1:31 PM
This is the real TRUE authentic story of how facesitting began.

One day Mrs. Trogg was out gathering food (Mr. Trogg was a gonner having been recently eaten by a Sabertooth Tiger). Suddenly the shadow of a huge Pterosaurs appeared and alerted her to danger. Terrified she dropped her basket and ran headlong for the cave. The massive Pterosaurs circled then dove towards its pray. It missed but managed to rip off Mrs. Trogg’s flimsy cloths. It circled again then swooped low. With the safety of the cave before her she made a mighty leap.

Just inside the entrance of the cave lay her son, Ugh. He was laying flat on his back looking up at the roof of the cave. For a cave boy he was quit intelligent. An idea had just come to him. If he furiously rubbed two dry sticks together over some dry leaves or moss...then...then.

His thoughts were suddenly interrupted when Mrs. Trogg landed right on his face in a 69 position. Ugh’s nose was now pressed deep into Mrs. Trogg. She smiled a broad well satisfied smile, spread her legs wide, pressed down with her hips and arched her back. “Ahhhh, this feel good to Trogg.” she said. Up until that moment she had been a contributator to the tribe. From then on all she did was sit on Ugh. Later that day Mrs. Trogg invented the orgasm.

Ugh was particularly mad for his rival Ouch, a young lad his own age, went on to invent fire. That’s why to this day when burned by a fire you yell OUCH! Not UGH!

face4wife2sit
02-08-2007, 3:22 PM
This is the real TRUE authentic story of how facesitting began.

...

Ugh was particularly mad for his rival Ouch, a young lad his own age, went on to invent fire. That’s why to this day when burned by a fire you yell OUCH! Not UGH!

Now, that's more like it! :) I agree that facesitting started during the cave man age, so was pussy eating. Remember the movie Cave Man?

Cunnilini
02-08-2010, 5:55 PM
This is very erotic but is there historic evidence to back it up. To be honest it seems more of a male fantasy.

charlie4939
02-08-2010, 9:26 PM
I think it has more to do with blowjobs, to be frank with you. Historical significance and all that crap aside, if a guy gets a blowjob, the lady wants some head too. I can tell ya that as a young man I was quite appalled at the notion of a woman putting her mouth on me like that. And I never wanted it of any girlfriend. And they thought I was lieing. So thats why I think there's no big mystery about this stuff, and that it has more to do with just tit for tat. Blowjobs are terribly discomforting to me. And then she wants to kiss ya. Absolutely disgusting.

"While this topic seems to have gone a little offtrack in recent posts, I'm still curious as to why people would think that facesitting is only a recent part of sexual behaviour, as I said above, I'm pretty certain that it's been going on for millenia, would anybody like to offer any 'evidence' or even just a rational argumnet as to why this wouldn't be the case ?"

Its only as recent as the internet.

al-uk
02-14-2010, 10:11 AM
While this topic seems to have gone a little offtrack in recent posts, I'm still curious as to why people would think that facesitting is only a recent part of sexual behaviour, as I said above, I'm pretty certain that it's been going on for millenia, would anybody like to offer any 'evidence' or even just a rational argumnet as to why this wouldn't be the case ?


I agree that facesitting as requested by males of females has probably been around for millenia.. however the issue is:- has there really been a society when females genuinely like to show their superiority/power by sitting on male faces? Many of the examples cited are intriguing..eg use of pages/dwarfs/slaves etc by aristocratic ladies.. and I'd love to believe that Amazon warriors ritually facesat male captives. However I've not seen any evidence to convince me this really happens -rather than wishful thinking/fantasies in male minds.

Given the present climate in which 'girl power' etc is always being pushed by the media I'm surprised that facesitting has not become more prominent in our much more permissive society... gay & lesbian sex no longer raises an eyebrow..and even S&M involving whips & bondage is now common on TV etc..and yet facesitting, outside dedicated sites like MDFF etc, remains as rare as hens teeth. In my experience most girls when approached for the first time do not really understand facesitting .. so I'm tempted to conclude that its not really something that girls like. Thats not to say that once some girls realise they can charge £100 and hour for this service that they become retrospectvely very enthuisiastic about it!

So sadly I don't see any evidence for past societies in which facesitting plays a major role.. I really wish I could !!

My suspicion is that we now live at the best time ever for facesitting. We should rejoice in the way that facesitting services have become readily available since the internet appeared. My guess is that faceseats have never had it so good ..In the 1960/70s I searched hard and long for facesitting ..and could find neither photos nor the real thing. Its really great that now -after a few mouse clicks you can find dozens of attractive girls in easy reach ready to facesit you for a relatively small fee.


This is proving really interesting thread.. + I'm still hoping to see a post which proves societies of facesitting girls really existed!!

Cunnilini
02-16-2010, 1:13 PM
I tend to agree. back than women were much more submissive. maybe females would enjoy it but its the stigma attached but it still seems that its the men who seek out this fetish so unfortounatly these accounts were probably not true since there is no solid evidence. I have only scene this one article but no other sources on the topic.

Cunnilini
03-31-2010, 12:42 PM
You are absolutely rigth about history.
Until the 19th century it was absolutely common that young girls from the upper class had servants or slaves for their pleasure and this way young girls who were hot, could stay virgins until a marriage.
Using a young boy this way was so common that nobody was even talking about that.
It was nothing but usual and most women did it.
The same way young pages or slaves were used especially by ladies also as a toilet.
For e.g. at the big caste of Versailles where lived about 18.000 people there was only 1 toilet and this toilet was was reserved to the military guard.
In the castle therefore you will not find any bathroom and with their wide dresses the ladies would have been forced to walk miles just for having a piss.
Almost all women theefore preferred the easiest way by using a page who were treated not much different like young slaves.

In the colonies where slavery was common it was easy and cheap for every european woman to get a young slave for this purpose and there is also one important development in regard of that:
As well as roman girls and ladies and as well als upper class women in European societies were using slaves or pages for facesitting, the more these women were extremely demanding in regard of sex when they were married.
Many husbands were not able to satisfy these demanding and very experienced women and young ladies and so homosexuality was increasing more and more.
With a yioung slave a lady was not obliged to have an patience because she made the rules and young slaves who did not fulfill the expectations of those demanding girls and ladies wer usually extremely hard punished. So they did what they were expected to do.
Even Maria Theresia the Emperess of Austria was always looking for handsome convicts in her prisons who were used by her and her ladies from the court only for this purpose. She herself said that for such a convict it wasd better to live some furthe time under these conditions than being hanged as he was condemned.
After some time of use by her and her ladies, those men got hanged or decaptivated and so there were no witnesses.
Very rarely she left to some their lives.
In all upper class households this was quite common and sio this way women and girls seemed to get what they were expecting.
The pages or slaves did not any choice but to do their very best.


any info on this or proof?

charlie4939
03-31-2010, 1:18 PM
The bad thing about the origins of face sitting is the ego involved with western aristocracy pertaining to it. It wasn't invented in the west. Its an oriental invention.

A. Blake Lady
04-06-2010, 3:27 AM
proved by sources that Egyptians like Cleopatra like to use honey inside their anus and as well in their vagina by believing this would help to ease digestion and to clean the anus as well as the vagina.

Wouldn't the sugar in the hunny deregulate the inner vagina system? (I don't know what it's called in english, sorry)

Cunnilini
04-12-2010, 12:46 AM
The bad thing about the origins of face sitting is the ego involved with western aristocracy pertaining to it. It wasn't invented in the west. Its an oriental invention.

Source? I know festises such dominatrix are big in Japan but tradicationa;;y Asian women were expected to be submissive.

charlie4939
04-12-2010, 5:49 PM
Simple deduction my dear watson. Orientals tend to think with the other half of their brains. This makes them extremely cultural and aesthetic. Albeit, the Geisha is a submissive in public. But that says nothing of what they did in private.

EM1989
04-13-2010, 1:42 AM
This is pure fantasty, nothing else. I've looked around for historical precedents before and they simply don't exist.

Frederik
01-15-2011, 1:00 AM
Wouldn't the sugar in the hunny deregulate the inner vagina system? (I don't know what it's called in english, sorry)

As far as I know honey has only fruit sugar and honey is indeed antiseptic.
So probably sugar in the anus could not cause any harm.
In the vagina I think it could be different but honey was one of the stuffs which were regarded for a long time to prevent pregnancy.

Frederik
01-15-2011, 1:15 AM
any info on this or proof?

There are indeed only discrete hints.
Queens and Emperesses could reprieve any kind of a sentence by a court and even the ladies of the court had mostly unlimited power.

And we have sources for real that at the French court as well as at the Russian court or in Austria ladies of the court were visiting prisons and that they were chosing handsome doomed men.
What happened to them at the court we have indeed no further informations but only discrete hits.

At the castle of Versailles where about 18.000 people did live, they did not have a single toilet for example.
And we have a very good report from a noble Germn lady who lived at Versailles and who reports that men were pissing into the corners or into the big fireplaces in the rooms.
And this lady was regretting that ladies had to look for different solutions.
Young pages were around everywhere and ladies could use them however they liked.

In former times people were different to our times extremely discrete and so you won't find clear sources.
And by the way anything that happened at court was a national secret.

A quite good source is the book of Grimmelshausen who was reporting quite clear about these things during the 30 year war in Germany.
He describes a lot of these things quite outspoken.

About the Roman time we have sources by the satiric comments of critical philosophers.Juvenal was one of them.

sub_with_character
01-22-2011, 12:59 AM
Glad to see this topic discussed again after a
four-year lapse. Yes, i certainly agree, that
article from Madame is certainly no model of
credible history. But that doesn't mean FS
doesn't have a real history or even that
everything in that article is necessarily false.

I came across the part about ladies using their
page boys almost 30 years ago, but not as
proof for FS but for a western variant of
Taoist/Tantric sex practiced during the Middle
Ages in French Provence. You can probably
follow it up on Google under "Andreas
Capellanus" or the "cathars. This was a group
practicing what was regarded as such wildly
deviant sex that the Catholic Church launched
a whole ruthless & bloody crusade against
them, the Albigensian Crusade. Problem is,
the orginal doesn't really give too many sexual
details, so it could conceivably have been
either FS or a variant of Tantric/Taoist, or
perhaps even both. It was introduced from
the East by Bulgarian heretics known as
Bogomils, and some people dismissed the
practice as gay ass-fucking, hence the French
word "bougre" & English "bugger."

But there are three forms of evidence much
closer to home that make it a pretty sure
thing that FS has been around for a long
time. As recently as 10 years ago most men
& even some women had no clear idea what
it was that Lesbian & bi- women do together
when they have sex. Now, thanks to the web,
we know that they enjoy three principal ways
of making love: tribbing, face-sitting, and
using dildos, strapon or otherwise. There's
no reason on earth to assume that FS
among women is a recent practice, most
probably it goes back as far as any form
of sex can possibly go. And if a bi girl
happened to make love with a male,
there's no reason to suppose she
wouldn't have tried out FS with him as well.
So that alone opens the door of history to FS.

But wait, there's something even closer
to home, right here on this discussion group,
it's a long thread entitled something like
"your first FS experience." In it a remarkable
number of you confess that this occurred
at an early age and that the sitter was a
sister or other young female family member.
This is also not something likely to have
occurred only in modern times, in fact it
may have been even more frequent in
earlier times when families lived a good
deal closer together than today. It may
still be rather frequent even today.
Assuming conservatively that only one
out of a thousand males gets facesat
when young, out of 150 million US males,
this would still mean that 150,000
American men have at some time or other
been facesat. They may not all have liked
it, and a lot of them may have simply
forgotten the experience when they later
learned what sex was supposed to be,
but the experiences still count.

Finally, it's easy to prove that each major
sex act has two subdivisions, one male-
dominated, the other female-dominated.
I was once present at a conference of
professional sexologists when the famous
(or infamous, for a botched sex-change
operation) sexologist John Money made
the claim that men fuck, women "swive."
Men pump and lunge with their organs,
while women contract, enwrap, and milk
with theirs. Money claimed "swive" as an
older English word for the latter function.
As for cock-sucking, this is usually
regarded as a female-dominant act,
but the man can intervene if he wishes
& make it male-dominant by mouth-&-
throat-fucking the woman. Muff-diving
or cunnilingus is usually male-dominant,
but the woman can make it female-
dominant at any time by...you guessed
it, face-sitting. All of this is pure
physiology. and there's no reason to
suppose all these practices haven't been
used throughout all of human history.

Whether or not they have always been
accepted as "normal" or "acceptable" is
another matter...

All the best to everyone!

sub_with_character

al-uk
01-24-2011, 1:47 PM
I'm sure that facesitting at some level has been around for as long as humans have existed. Girls bottoms have always attracted men and its natural for us to want to place our faces against them. As humans spend lots of time sitting I guess its not a big step to move onto girls sitting on the faces of their male aquaintances, which could lead onto the idea of girls dominating males by this method.

However I am dissappointed not to find more references to it in recorded history,mainstream literature, Art etc. Its surprising to me that ancient artists do not seem to have painted or drawn this theme.

On the other hand the idea of placing your foot on an enemies neck as a sign of complete subjugation seems common both in literature (eg Bible, Shakespeare ) and art. The painting below by Reni shows Saint Michael vanquishing the devil and symbolically placing his foot on the devils neck. The drawing is an ancient one showing an Assyrian King symbolically placing his foot on the neck of a defeated enemy.

How much more humiliating for the defeated King and his people if he were to be used publically (or at least at court) as a bound seat by the Queen and/or Princesses of a victorious nation.. culminating in being used as a faceseat! Surely one of the renaissance painters could have depicted a victorious Queen facesitting a defeated King? Or perhaps in more recent times why not commission a cartoon artist to show the equivalent of say Britannia sitting on the face of the Tsar in the Crimean War and the Kaiser in WW1...or aircraft nose art of say the Memphis Belle sitting on Hitlers face?

Perhaps I'm being a bit naive, but it seems to me that is a strong taboo against public depiction even of fully clothed facesitting...it seems even more so than full sexual acts. Even in the past few decades there are many movies emphasising girl power and yet it is rare to see them using their defeated male rivals as a seat..and even rarer to see the facesitting position employed..which to me would really emphasise the girls victory. I wonder if the guys who control most of the media are uncomfotable with this or could be that we are a just a small minority and 99% of the population just don't get the significance of it, or would even be turned off by it.

Anyone aware of any historical art which depicts facesitting (not just oral sex)?


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1IFc2RW2gCE/ScxBOsKEGbI/AAAAAAAAAAY/y2bvdVV5cvQ/S660/Archangel_Michael_Reni.jpghttp://www.blessedquietness.com/alhaj/ass-king.gif

sub_with_character
01-25-2011, 2:59 AM
Alas, early depictions of FS are conspicuous by their absence.
We ought to see it among the sculpted figures on the
famous Indian temple of Khajuraho. but we don't. Likewise,
it ought to be at least described in the Kama Sutra, but
it isn't. It's not found in ancient Greek art, even in what
was then the closed-to-the-public collection of ancient
Greek trinkets at the British Museum, which i got to see
way back in the 60s. Worst of all, Freud, Kinsey,
Masters & Johnson, & Alex Comfort never seem to
have heard of it.

What does this mean? Is it simply fear & suppression? Or
is some other factor at work?

I'm not sure. It could be that most people in all ages
found other realms of sex so entrancing that they never
got around to FS. That could be part of it. The other
part of it could be uneasiness about contact between
the man's face & the lady's rosebud as well as her
vulva. Lots of states still have sodomy laws on the
books, though not too many people or law-makers
have a very clear idea of what sodomy actually is.

But this hasn't stopped the ladies from doing it
to each other.

Probably it's a general unease about sex among
many people, as much as they love it. Also, as
i said in another thread, it does require learning
a number of new & fairly different love-making
techniques & positions.

Anyway, it looks like this all may soon be changing...

All the best!

sub_with_character